Mabus Incarnate ~ View topic

Newbie Joined: 25 Jun 2009 Posts: 28 Location: Austin, TX

Hey, folks! We just had a investigation involving one member of the household being shoved or pushed by an unseen force. We got supposed evidense of the child being shoved out of bed, but had to discount it due to the fact that we have no way to measure if he was pushed or not. We had a kinematics secialist look at the footage, but he rendered it inconclusive.

So, the question is, how do we develop a method to record this? We have some ideas (wet-suit with pressure gauges, etc) but they fail in application. Do you guys have any ideas for how to measure the force applied by an unknown force?

End Transmission =+

Global Forum Moderator Joined: 28 Sep 2009 Posts: 356

An interesting thought, but I'm not the most tech savvy guy in the world.

This could present a problem as any kinetic energy, such as the child suddenly jerking, may register on any sensors, and thus be considered inconclusive.

About the best I could think of would be to place electromagnetic recorders as close as possible, or perhaps sensors connected to the devices, to see if there is a sudden spike in EM energy at the moment of the "push."

Most manifestations seem to be linked to this energy output and I think that would be as close as it could come to knowing if it was a manifestation.

It would seem to me that the EM energy needed for such an event would be way up there in scale.

This is indeed wild, first thought is trying to use some kind of thin memory foam vest/pant type suit. Depending on the situation that may be totally impractical. Although as soon as an event took place you might be able to document unusual pressure marks.

If you can get the kid to sleep with no blanket or shirt it seems that thermal imaging should pick up a faint something. Even if not, them just being exposed should show an awkward, unnatural movement as they fly off the bed.

Newbie Joined: 25 Jun 2009 Posts: 28 Location: Austin, TX

All good ideas! We are saving up for a thermal cam right now ($$$$ Yikes!!) but I feel that may give us the best possible data.

We are playing around with some piezo-electric sensors that are extremely sensitive to touch. We are going to experiment with them as trigger objects. I will let you all know how the prototype goes.

Global Forum Moderator Joined: 28 Sep 2009 Posts: 356

Thermal cams!!

Major bankage there, M'man...I wish you luck.

The piezo sensors sound like a cool idea. Can't wait to find out how they may react under actual field conditions. Especially since we know the "push force" may not be an actual physical energy transfer as we understand it to be.

I would almost bet on a type of field energy. Would piezos be sensitive to such energies?

*told ya I wasn't the most tech savvy person in the world*

Newbie Joined: 25 Jun 2009 Posts: 28 Location: Austin, TX

Hey, don't worry about your tech-savviness. I had to go into the Army to get mine. LOL

As far as I know, Piezo's are not effected my magnetic fields.

A basic breakdown of how a piezo works:
A piezoelectric sensor is a device that uses the piezoelectric effect to measure pressure, acceleration, strain or force by converting them to an electrical signal.
A piezoelectric disk generates a voltage when deformed. Since most of them are made with brass or copper, magnetics don't effect them too much.

We are connecting 3 piezo buzzer units to an Arduino microcontroller and interfacing it to our laptop. We can detect the voltage change, and then measure the ammount of force based on the electical signal each one produces. Whether or not it will work is another story.

So Torque, I dont know much about you, how long you have been hunting or anything, but. Have you and or your fellow hunters ever discussed how the spirits may just not do anything when they can see you are trying to catch them doing it? I have an idea in my head for a contraption but aint sure how it could be hidden. It would be fairly cheap to build, cheap enough that if it doesnt work it wouldnt be that big a deal. Twould measure the air through volume fluctuations.

Newbie Joined: 25 Jun 2009 Posts: 28 Location: Austin, TX

Monkey,
we have thought about that particular question a few times. For residual hauntings, it doesn't matter if anyone is there or watching or whatever, they perform it consistently, like an instant replay. For the intelligent hauntings, I have felt that the shy ones may clam up. I don't feel that they sleep, so even if you hide it, they would know it. However, if you could figure out a way to fit the unit in a hide-a-book and have a member of the house place the book somewhere, it might fool the intelligent hauntings.

So, when you say air volume fluctuations, are you talking about air flow differential or barometric pressure changes?

Hm...I think that perhaps since they're so sensitive to electronic devices, they can probably sense them. I'm reminded of a clip I saw from Ghost Hunters where a shadow person came from behind a pool table, saw the camera, then immediately ducked back.

Sometimes I'm convinced they have that ghost manual from Beetlejuice, where they're instructed to not provide any evidence of ghosts, whatsoever.

Global Forum Moderator Joined: 28 Sep 2009 Posts: 356

After thirty some odd years as a practicing occultist I need no proof of spiritual entities. Yet, I have always found the scientific investigations and techniques fascinating.

Thanks for explaining the piezo, torque, it does sound promising and I hope it works.

I was think flow differentials. I really need to write stuff down when I am drinking cuz I had it pictured in my head but details are gone now. I need to look around some of my suppliers (in the rubber hose and acc. business) and see what hardware I can find to even do it, but I was thinking a low pressure airstream between a supply line and a reciever cup of some sort that would register a disruption in the flow. Now that I think about it more it may be too sensitive and could be tripped by a simple fart. Anyhow, I'm gonna research the idea a bit more and maybe try to build one over the slow winter months.

I am only thinking along these lines as air changes seem to be common place in reports whether it be a gust of wind or change in temp or whatever.

Global Forum Moderator Joined: 28 Sep 2009 Posts: 356

Monkey got me to thinking with that one.

Thermal sensors attached to the subject may work well. Most manifestations do seem to be accompanied by a drop in temperature.

A sudden drop in skin temp at the moment of the "push" could be seen as verification, or additional data to corroborate the piezo data.

Much like what Monkey had stated, I'd consider using thermal imaging immediately after the encounter. Someone can more than likely pinpoint a point of contact, naturally wherever human flesh is struck is going to get slightly warmer than the rest of the body. Using a thermal imager and seeing if you can detect a point of contact, and possibly inflamed skin in the area where the body was struck may present interesting evidence. You can even test it, smack your forearm and see if there is an obvious temperature difference when observing your forearm through the thermal imager and see if it does show that area as warmer. I think it could go either way, and might be a viable experiment to look into.